[00:00:00] Kc Rossi: My guest today is Joanna Kleinman. Joanna shares that being a human means that you have an inner critic, which is that little voice inside your mind, telling you how imperfect you are all day long. So Joanna is a licensed psychotherapist and inner critic.
[00:00:18] And she is going to share so much valuable information. In this episode. Two of my very favorite pieces that we talk about is how to unhook from our automatic minds. And when we learn how to do this, we really have the power to change our lives. And the second piece, which I thought was very interesting was why event during our imprint stage actually has this impact that we carry with us sometimes like baggage throughout our whole entire life, until we're able to recognize them and make a shift.
[00:00:54] I know you're going to enjoy this conversation and I'd love to hear from you. You can always continue [00:01:00] the conversations that we start here on the post. Over in the women developing brilliant Facebook group, but for now, please enjoy the show. Hey, Joanna, it's so awesome to have you here on the show.
[00:01:13] Welcome.
[00:01:15] Joanna Kleinman: Thanks, Kc. It's so great to be here.
[00:01:18] Kc Rossi: Awesome. I know we're going to have a very good conversation cause we have quite a bit in common, primarily. Truly loving mindset. And I would like to kick this off with why are you so passionate? That mindset becomes main street
[00:01:33] Joanna Kleinman: knowledge. That's such a good quote.
[00:01:36] So I basically been on an inquiry since I was 13 years old. I was fortunate enough to have parents that were on their own self-growth and self-awareness journey. My mother was a psychotherapist, my father. He's a little bit of a tortured soul. And so he was always looking for [00:02:00] ways to deal with his mindset.
[00:02:01] So anyway, when I was 13, I will never forget. I witnessed somebody in a seminar, standing there with a seminar leader, and this woman was able to shift the way. This seminar participant was looking at a particular situation in her life. And I actually witnessed like really her whole life opening up in a new direction because she was able to shift a belief that she had been carrying with her dragging with her really for her whole life.
[00:02:36] And so it was just in that moment that I saw what was possible when you're really. Intentional about where your mind is going. And I decided at 13, that's what I want to do with the rest of my life. Now I'm 50 now. And so I've really devoted my whole life to this and not just professionally, but [00:03:00] personally as well.
[00:03:01] And so what I see for myself and then for everybody that I work with, When, you know how to think, right? Not just having thoughts, but intentionally how to think you are living a fundamentally different life. And I'm just passionate about everybody, really understanding how to think in a way where we are all living lives, where we can access peace and joy and free.
[00:03:30] And contentment, even when life doesn't go in the direction that we want it to, or we think it
[00:03:36] Kc Rossi: should. Absolutely. Especially. And I'm right there with you. That's awesome. Such a powerful experience to have it at a young age, and then to just have that sense of knowing lean in and have all of that longevity and.
[00:03:51] Not only on a professional basis, but a personal basis, which I can imagine makes you that much more magnetic because we absolutely have to [00:04:00] walk our talk and that's, what's going to bring people towards us. So I'm really excited to learn more. I know that you do a lot of work with inner critics and before we dive deep into that, I would love it.
[00:04:11] If you could just explain to us, why do we even have an inner
[00:04:15] Joanna Kleinman: critic? Yeah. Alright, this is all humans. Okay. There's nobody walking around on this planet that does not have an inner critic. So the way that I describe the inner critic mind is it's the voice that speaks to us over 60,000 times a day. We have 60 over 60,000 thoughts a day, right?
[00:04:38] So it's with us from the moment we get up to the moment we go to bed. And the reason why we all have it is because. Unfortunately for us as human beings when we are starting at around three or four, that's when we're trying to determine how are we valued? How do we belong? How do we [00:05:00] fit in? Okay.
[00:05:01] This really actually goes back to caveman times, right? We right. We needed to fit into the tribe or else we died. Okay. So here we are. Little boys and little girls, and we're trying to figure out how we matter and how we belong mostly to our immediate family. And what is inevitable is that something happens in our little young life and it is our first experience of feeling like there is in some way something's wrong.
[00:05:34] Okay. Now it could be something traumatic. It could be something as benign as mom yells at us for spilling milk. But it's our first experience of, oh my gosh. I might not be loved. I might not be accepted. And what we don't understand when we are 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 years old around those ages. Okay. Is that [00:06:00] our parents.
[00:06:01] Our human beings. Okay. Now as a Toltz right. We know that we are always reacting to things, we have overreactions, we get triggered. So the most important people around us when we're young, A lot of times are reacting from their pain. Mom screams at us for spilling milk. We don't know. She just got into a fight with dad and the mortgage is due and, whatever else is going on, we assign meaning false meaning where there is no meaning.
[00:06:31] And we do this all very subconsciously. And so what happens is we experience this intense pain. That's so overwhelming to a little boy or a little bit. And immediately our survival mechanism kicks in. Okay. Our survival mechanism is all about how do I avoid pain? So that's where the inner critic mind first starts.
[00:06:55] Our mind says, okay, I never want to experience this pain again. [00:07:00] And so what do I need to do to make sure I don't, how do I make sure that everybody loves me and everybody values me and I've never rejected and I never fail. That's where it first begins.
[00:07:13] Kc Rossi: It makes so much sense. I'm curious. And I know with your psychotherapy background that you're going to have a good answer for.
[00:07:21] Why are those imprint years? So dang powerful.
[00:07:25] Joanna Kleinman: Yeah, because we don't have any understanding right. Of what really constitutes being a human being. In other words, in our, because we're young children right. In our world, our parents are all right or adults are all. They're almost like God, they're infallible.
[00:07:52] They can do no wrong. We don't know that they make mistakes. We don't know that they're only human. And so if they're mad [00:08:00] or they're rejecting or they're critical, or they're upset, we have no ability to know that's because of them. And so of course, as children, it always becomes about us. And this could be with anyone, it could be. We could assign false meaning to our parents, but we also assign false meaning to maybe things that our sibling say or other children say. Now here's the thing that's really difficult. Okay. Is that we don't know that we do this when we're really little. And so now let's fast forward.
[00:08:36] Okay. Now we are, in fifth grade and we're on the playground and little Susie sticks her tongue out at us and says, I don't want to play with you anymore. Automatically, we see that through that filter that we first created when we were three and we didn't know it. So now we assign that meaning.
[00:08:55] So imagine all of the big and tiny [00:09:00] ways that we assign false meaning, right? The failed tests, the sideways glances from the teacher, all of these experiences. So by the time we are adults, A lot of layers here, it's we can't remember what we had for breakfast two days ago, but we remember in fifth grade when little Susie stuck her tongue out at us.
[00:09:22] It's those are the places where our automatic mind focuses right. Goes right to that core pain. And tries to protect us from the pain.
[00:09:33] Kc Rossi: Yeah. It makes so much sense. Thank you for explaining that. I love the fact that you underscored faults, meaning because that immediately gives it some context of one.
[00:09:43] There's a lack of truth in it. And two, it can be changed and have a shift in our perspective. So I really appreciate that. I'm curious of your thoughts on whether or not women's inner critics are louder and more persistent than men's
[00:09:59] Joanna Kleinman: or if that's okay.[00:10:00] No, that is not a metric. That is not a myth. Okay.
[00:10:07] So first of all, there have actually been studies. I think I'm saying this out of memory, but I think it was a Harvard business review study that said that women. We'll only take positions. If they know that they are 100% capable of taking that position, whereas a man will take the position, even if he doesn't know if he's qualified and capable and he says, you know what, I'll just figure it out.
[00:10:37] So they've actually done studies on this and there are so many puzzle pieces that go into this. And I think that for a very long time, We listen, we've lived for generations in a very male oriented society and we had a lot of roles and responsibilities. [00:11:00] That unfortunately translated into, we are responsible for everything and everyone, we are responsible for everybody's happiness, for everybody's emotions.
[00:11:12] We're responsible for how our children turn out with this is all false by the way. But our culture perpetuates this idea a hundred percent everybody else's emotional wellbeing is our responsibility. And pressure. And then it used to be that we, for a long time we just had roles raising children, but now we are like super women.
[00:11:35] We do it all. And what is a shame for women is that we have this ideal version of ourselves that lives in our minds, all of us. And we have this idea, right? She is the perfect size and the perfect, she does everything perfectly. She's the perfect mom and she's the perfect business owner and she knows everything and she's got the perfect level of [00:12:00] confidence and right.
[00:12:01] It just keeps going on and on. And so we compare ourselves to this ideal version of who we think we're supposed to be. And it's this chronic state of no matter who we are and what we've accomplished and the lives that we're living, it's never good enough because we think that ideal person in our head actually is possible of a children.
[00:12:24] Kc Rossi: I totally agree with you. And you're absolutely correct. I do think that our environment marketing and society perpetuates. Super woman persona. And I'm really happy to see that we're starting to see a shift in the change in conversation, but I'm just wondering for how many years do we have to have this conversation before we embrace it as.
[00:12:48] Curious of your thoughts of when we're going to be able to crack through this super woman persona, even though we're getting such great content now on this topic, but we're still so [00:13:00] addicted to the Instagram reels of perfectionism.
[00:13:03] Joanna Kleinman: Yes. So listen, the short answer is I certainly don't know how many years it's going to take.
[00:13:10] Okay. But I think, I personally think that COVID okay. Horrific as it was and how much destruction that it's caused. Okay. Sometimes I think that there are, there's other forces and right. I, you could call. The university, you could call it God, you could call it source, right? Whatever you're going to call it.
[00:13:30] It's that energy that is beyond us. Okay. That we've all heard this analogy before. You get the pebble upside your head. And if you don't listen to it, you get the brick that falls on your head. And then if you don't get it right, then all of a sudden, the whole building falls on our heads, that happens to us in our personal lives. But it's starting to happen to us as a society. Yes. And if we do not right, and this is the me too movement and black lives matter, we are starting to [00:14:00] shift into a new level of consciousness, a new level of awakening, but that comes with a lot of pain and a lot of uncertainty and a lot of unpredictability, which is why I think that it is imperative now more than ever before.
[00:14:20] That particularly we, as women come together, not just do our own inner work on an individual basis. But that we really come together and we're on this journey together that we are supporting each other. Yeah. I love it. That I just created. This whole brand new program called the confidence cure.
[00:14:44] And with it is an entire community of women that are learning and growing together. Beautiful that, and
[00:14:55] Kc Rossi: I'm happy that this wave is here and I told you that it [00:15:00] definitely took and is continuing to take an upheaval order to clean off our glasses and go through with a different kind of perception.
[00:15:09] So I love that. I love that we are stronger together as now becoming an embodied hashtag, we're literally able to live it out. We're looking for that collection, that tribe mentality to truly, I think, pull together our strengths. So I'm super excited about that. I'll drop the link to your course coming up so other people can take a look at it and I'm really excited for you about that.
[00:15:33] Awesome. Yeah, I would, yeah. I'd love to hear a little bit about. Some ways, or maybe just even one or two of your top ways that we can dethrone that inner critic. So we can start to experience flow and ease and that sense of empowerment that we have in us. But it's somehow been covered with all those layers you spoke about.
[00:15:54] Yeah.
[00:15:54] Joanna Kleinman: Great. So the whole concept of. Dethrone in your inner critic. [00:16:00] Now, the way that I created a methodology called the mind method, M I N D is an acronym. I wrote a book about it. I'll just talk a little bit about, essentially what that is. So we have this automatic mind. Okay. That's the mind that I call the inner critic, right?
[00:16:16] It is literally like our hearts beat, or our bodies breathe, our minds just go. And what we don't really understand is that we have the same thoughts day in and day. Okay. We have a thought like, oh, my boss disrespected me. Chances are, if you really dig below the surface, that the thoughts that we're having about my boss are the same thoughts that we had 10 years ago and the same thoughts that we had 10 years before that.
[00:16:42] They're just regurgitated thoughts. So when we really are able to see the thoughts of our automatic mind, okay. And we recognize we're not changing those. That's not the goal. So a lot of traditional psychotherapy or traditional coaching is about [00:17:00] change your thoughts, change your life.
[00:17:01] I don't adhere. I don't subscribe to that. I think that we've got an old mind. Okay. That says the same thoughts over and over again. But when we start to recognize, we are actually separate from that old mind, we actually learn how to unhook. Ourselves from that old mind when it's speaking it's same thoughts that create the same emotions that create the same behaviors.
[00:17:27] And we really can see it clearly and unhook from it moment by moment now. We use this moment to step into what I call a new rewired mind, or we are intentionally having a different thought that taps into an intentionally different emotion. And from that different emotion, we're taking different actions.
[00:17:51] So what starts to happen is over time, the more that you're seeing your old mind and saying, oh, that's my old mind. That's [00:18:00] not me. That's my. And unhooking from it and there's right. I, there's a lot of different ways that I teach people how to do that. But on hooking from it and stepping into that new mind over time.
[00:18:12] I work with people within this group within right within the program. And I swear to you after three. They're seeing themselves living a different life because they just keep practicing, seeing it unhooking from it and stepping into something else.
[00:18:28] Kc Rossi: This episode is brought to you by know, thyself and lead my free mini training that unlocks the top three secrets that you need to joyfully through.
[00:18:37] You'll learn the number one way to fuel action so that you're never stuck or procrastinate. Again, you'll crack the code and unveil your specific aligned purpose for more flow and ease. And you'll discover the way to propel you further, faster. You can binge watch all three trainings at once or at your.
[00:18:58] Either way you'll want to [00:19:00] sign up and dive right in access know thyself and [email protected] slash lead. That's Kc rossi.com/lead. Now please enjoy the show. I love that unhooking visual, because you literally. Distinguish and make that distinction between yourself and your mind. So I really liked that.
[00:19:26] It feels very empowering. It feels like you're also not giving energy to some of the older ways of quote unquote therapy that just keep rehashing the same story. It feels much more empowering and healthy to unhook the aware unfuck and then be empowered to change the story and create a new paradigm for yourself.
[00:19:48] Joanna Kleinman: That's right. Exactly. The D step of the mind method that I created is design your life. So the approach is all forward movement. [00:20:00] How we change the trajectory of our lives is through action, but action starts with thought it all, everything starts with thought, right? Because many action that we take.
[00:20:12] From our emotion, we're motivated to take the actions that we take. Because again, if we look at that survival mechanism we want to seek out pleasure and avoid pain. That's really how human beings are hard wired. So if we can use that survival mechanism, to actually on hook from what is the automatic desire to avoid.
[00:20:36] Our uncomfortable emotions, right? That's where all our suffering comes from. We want to avoid our discomfort, but if we can actually figure out a way. To lean into the discomfort and use it for our growth. That's what all of my 12, my teaching is about
[00:20:56] Kc Rossi: speaking my language. I absolutely love it. It would be [00:21:00] cool.
[00:21:00] If you could share maybe a mini case study of how you saw this culture shift take place and either an individual or even a team once they've gone through your mind method.
[00:21:10] Joanna Kleinman: Yeah. Oh my goodness. I'll use my. Program. So I have a program that I'm leading right now called mastering your mind, and it's a group of nine women and each and every one of them are dealing with some very difficult circumstances, right?
[00:21:26] Someone actually in the midst of the program got into a very serious spiking accident. Another one is dealing with launching a whole new career. Another one is dealing with the possibility of a divorce. And what's showing up is that in their ability to just be with what is, and to keep on hooking from that automatic fear of the unknown, right?
[00:21:56] When they're surrendering into trusting that [00:22:00] all they need to do is take each moment. And master their minds in a way so that they are tapping into peace, and trusting that their lives are unfolding exactly how they're going to unfold. They're not going to be able to change how it's unfolding.
[00:22:21] But they can trust that life is guiding them where they need to be. And they can just be in the discomfort of the unknown and be at. It is literally transforming them. Okay. Because they're dealing with very difficult, painful circumstances, but the suffering is optional. Eckhart totally said that pain is unavoidable.
[00:22:48] It's the suffering that's optional. And each one of them is learning how to not stop. As they're dealing with their pain and their uncertainty and their lack of [00:23:00] confidence and their doubt and their fear and their they're living a fundamentally different life. And it is because it's not just that they're learning how to manage their minds, but that together we're all we're seeing ourselves.
[00:23:14] I learned from them just as much as they learn from me. We see ourselves in each other and that's what takes our insights and our ahas and our awakened. To a completely different level because we're practicing vulnerability and sharing with one another and it's just, it's like magic. Yeah. I love
[00:23:33] Kc Rossi: it.
[00:23:33] I can feel your passion. There is definitely power in the collective that really United connection. And I love the fact that you have, a fully women's supported group, because I think that we are allowed to become even more vulnerable lay down any mask that is. And have that shared vulnerability and strength.
[00:23:54] I think there's a lot of inspiration and motivation that comes in the fact that if he moved do it. So can I, if she's [00:24:00] going through this pain and trauma and suffering and still is showing up and still is sharing that I can do that as well. So that work is so powerful. I feel like the perception shifts that I can imagine that happened in that container.
[00:24:15] Are absolutely priceless. That's one of the things that I value so much about personal and spiritual development is that there's never going a backwards when you have these paradigm shifts and these changes in your perspection, everything. Everything opens up and illuminates your path in a completely different way.
[00:24:34] So I applaud you for the work that you do. Thank you for shining. I think it's fabulous. How can people learn more about you, your work, your confidence cure course, coming up some details on how people can take a step closer to you.
[00:24:50] Joanna Kleinman: Oh, Kc. Thanks so much. This is such a wonderful conversation. So my website is deep running your inner critic.com.
[00:24:57] My book, which is [00:25:00] dethroning your inner critic. The four step journey from self-doubt to self-empowerment is on Amazon and also on audible. My podcast is deep running your inner critic, and you can find that. Podcasts are aired on apple, Stitcher, SoundCloud, and PC. You are going to be a guest on my podcast.
[00:25:19] I can't wait. Yeah, I think we're recording. Not a couple of days. So
[00:25:23] Kc Rossi: I love it. And I think that is the sense of collaboration. This is what it's about. It's really. Learning about each other, connecting, growing, sharing, and then just perpetuating this positive ripple effect. So I'm loving that.
[00:25:36] I can't wait to continue to collab with you too.
[00:25:39] Joanna Kleinman: I'm telling you, as we awaken, this is the thing, right? Those of us that are really passionate about collectively all of us as. Waking up and stepping into a really new level of our power. We got to all come together and support each other and that's, what's going to change our planet.[00:26:00]
[00:26:00] Kc Rossi: Yeah, it absolutely is. I love it. You've shared a lot of great gems and food for thought, and just also opened up some possibility and opportunity, which is really that first step of awareness. If you were going to leave our listeners with a final piece of your bright light wisdom, what would.
[00:26:18] Joanna Kleinman: You are separate from your automatic mind.
[00:26:21] And when you really truly know that and feel that and experience that separateness, you will be living a fundamentally different life. No matter what it is that you're facing,
[00:26:35] Kc Rossi: let's do it. I absolutely love it. Let's do it starting with you. And. Sounds like a great plan. Thank you, Joanna. So much for being here.
[00:26:43] I can't wait to connect again with you, Kc. All right. Until then, breathe joy.
