[00:00:35] Kc Rossi: My guest today is Amy Lynn Durham. Amy is the founder of create magic at work and a UC Berkeley certified executive coach. Amy uses spiritual intelligence and emotional intelligence to advocate for healthy workplaces and to energise and transform the workplace. I loved my conversation with Amy, we talked about what spiritual intelligence is the similarities and differences between spiritual intelligence and emotional intelligence, the upcoming culture shifts in the workplace and why human connection will win out. And then how spiritual intelligence and emotional intelligence improve the bottom line. And striving to be a calming and healing presence. plus radical self forgiveness when you're not. I hope you enjoy this episode, and I would love to hear your thoughts. Hey, Amy, welcome to the show.
[00:01:32] Amy Lynn Durham
Hi, I'm happy to be here. I'm excited to be here. I love the topics you cover. So thanks for having me.
[00:01:38] Kc Rossi
Yeah, my pleasure. I'm really excited to have you as well. We have not had an expert in spiritual intelligence. So I'm thrilled to hear your perspective and how you bring that in creating magic in the workplace. Because I know that's your specialty. So first off, for the listeners, it would be helpful if you could explain the basic definition of both spiritual intelligence and emotional intelligence, both their similarities and differences.
[00:02:05] Amy Lynn Durham
Cool. Yeah. So we'll start with EQ emotional intelligence. I think the easiest simplistic way to break it down as just practising managing your emotions, and how you react when it pertains to the workplace is sort of my area of interest. Are you aware of your emotions and how they impact others? Do you have an emotional management strategy? Can you build connection, and then SQ spiritual intelligence is the next step from EQ. Some would say there's some back and forth there, but SQ with Cindy Wigglesworth who designed the 21 skills of spiritual intelligence, her definition is the ability to make decisions with wisdom and compassion, while maintaining inner and outer peace. Regardless of the situation you're in, how beautiful, very beautiful definition. There is a philosopher and a physicist named Danah Zohar. She's done a tonne of work in the SQ space. And she has a I like to share from one of her books, she says it's the ability to put your day to day concerns aside and operate from a big picture worldview. And I like sharing that one because it's tied to leadership quite a bit for me.
[00:03:25] Kc Rossi
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. So I can see just in the descriptions, the connection between both of them on do you see any differences between the two.
[00:03:37] Amy Lynn Durham
And the differences that some people talk about between the two are, there's some feel that you get to SQ by way of EQ. Okay, and and that sort of aligns with the adult development theory, where your brain is developed enough in your early 20s, to actually really exercise compassion for others. And that's the EQ the emotional intelligence part, then the SQ part comes in when you're in your early to mid 30s. And that's where you're like, what's my life purpose? Why am I even in this job? Do I know what my values are? And I met Am I living in alignment with those? Yeah, so that's the adult development sort of step by step to us. Whew. And Dana argues in some of her work, that Eskew is the basis for everything you've got to be able to access your inner wisdom and your higher self to be able to do all these these other things as well. So there's some different talk out there, but either way, if you're working on it, it's amazing.
[00:04:47] Kc Rossi
So either way, we need a lot. But you know, it also kind of brings to mind you know, that we typically value IQ first, you know, generally speaking, and that's even the generation before were worth the kind of like all about the SH T's and the L SATs and all of that. So it is interesting to see them stack and layer. Um, I'm Yeah, yeah, it, do you get pushback, bringing in spirituality with business.
[00:05:17] Amy Lynn Durham
You know, no one's really ever said anything to my face. It's a good thing. But I, I know, it's out there what's you know, or people say that's too woowoo. We don't want to do that. Or sometimes, you know, HR doesn't want to touch spiritual intelligence, because they think it's talking about religion and the workplace. And that's just a lack of understanding of what it is. It's definitely designed for the workplace. It's faith neutral, you can be agnostic, you can be atheist, as long as you believe there's a place within you that you can access that comes from wisdom, compassion, love, you can skill build on the 21 skills of SQ, which, to me was a phenomenal find, because I was talking about spiritual intelligence quite a bit. And I had graduated from the UC Berkeley Executive Coaching Institute, and went on this journey talking about spiritual intelligence. And then I discovered the 21 skills. And I was like, Thank you, universe. Thank you, Cindy, for developing these because they're here. They're tangible. They're skills you can work on for the workplace. So sort of, yeah. So of course, I became an SQL 21 certified coach immediately. And it's, I feel like it's my life's work to just dive into each skill and really grow from them.
[00:06:42] Kc Rossi
Yeah, that's awesome. And I think we're ready for that. I'm really curious, because some people say that we have already kind of started this paradigm shift of bringing more heart centred wisdom in and spirituality to the workplace. But I'm so curious, where do you think we are on that spectrum of the paradigm shift?
[00:07:04] Amy Lynn Durham
This is such a good, interesting question, because you're asking me this, when I was just pondering before I came on, to talk to you about the great resignation. And I just read an article on LinkedIn about how employers are changing the way they they're hiring and recruiting. They're getting rid of background checks, they're expediting the onboarding process. And I, I just am just dropped from looking at that, and I'm excited about it. I'm excited about it, because I feel like the tide is turning to where we actually are going to show an interest in developing people. And it's this energy. And I'm sure companies are stressed, because I've been in the recruiting space for the Bay Area, which is tough. And I'm sure companies are stressed, and they want to find talent, and they need to, which is why all these changes are happening. But there's going to be so much good that comes from those changes, people that might have been overlooked in the past, because they didn't have a 10 you know, all of this educational background and a cover letter and this and that on their resume and all those jokes that go around those memes that go around, you need this many qualifications just to you know, be in a starting position that's going away. That's and companies are pivoting to really developing people now. Instead of thinking people should be begging them to work for them. And I love I love the energy shift and the feel of that because it's showing an interest in people. And how does that tie into SQ? Oh my gosh, huge, you're gonna have to be aware that your worldview isn't the only worldview, you're going to have to really flex and scale build as a leader to make wise and compassionate decisions, to be an effective teacher to be a wise and effective change agent. All these things, in my opinion, are going to level up the workplace.
[00:09:08] Kc Rossi
Yeah, it's gonna be the trifecta. I mean, you're gonna improve yourself, you're going to improve your workplace. And ultimately, that positive ripple effect of everybody being on the same page and tuned in and tapped in is going to affect the world, which is so exciting.
[00:09:24] Amy Lynn Durham
It's so exciting. I flashback to when I was trying to hire people and background checks would take forever to come back. And I would lose candidates and I get the whole reasoning behind running a background check and things like that, but we would lose possible talent or giving somebody a chance at starting over and training them and developed I think training and development is just going to be a whole new thing. I think HR is a whole new thing. My most the customer base that comes to me the most and I'm shocked by it, even though I shouldn't be as HR there's so into wanting to know about SQ for the workplace. And it's super encouraging.
[00:10:05] Kc Rossi
I love the aspect of development, I really I hear like a future prediction that you're sharing that we will probably even have a deeper dive. So I'm excited about that one company I feel does a really great job of that is Mind Valley, where they pay their employees 40 hours a week, but they request that the first hour of their day is spent towards personal development. So it's pretty amazing. Do you have like a standout that you're inspired by of someone who's doing it right?
[00:10:37] Amy Lynn Durham
I don't have a company that comes to mind off hand, and I've worked with quite a few. I'm really into the message, you know, from the UC Berkeley Coaching Institute that brings heart and humanity of the workplace everywhere through executive coaching. So that comes to mind right away, when you ask me that we operate from a from a space of using the four universal communication principles. I don't know if you've heard of those that are from Dr. Angeles, Aryan. And she, she's an anthropologist that studied societies all over the world. And the first is show up and choose to be present. So we operate from that, you know, I try to operate from that space. The second is pay attention to what has heart and meaning. The third is tell the truth without blame or judgement. And then the fourth is be open to outcome but not attached to it.
[00:11:35] Kc Rossi
Oh my gosh, that's amazing, that I can see how that philosophy would be transformational. When put into practice,
[00:11:45] Amy Lynn Durham
The open outcome but not attached to it is extremely transformational. At least for me, I have to remind myself every day that I can't control outcomes, with clients with my life, with relationships, and Deepak has that Deepak Chopra has that in his seven laws of spiritual success. He has the law of detachment, and then he also has the law of least effort. And those are all for the workplace. And those are all both of those touch on not trying to force solutions onto problems, thereby creating more problems. Sometimes letting things play out, you know,
[00:12:26] Kc Rossi
100%, I think when we are attached to results in the outcome, especially in the hustle, grind, and competitive spaces, which is the opposite of the positive company culture that I'm sure you help instigate, it's very easy to fall down that trap of like, push harder, grind harder, you know, get get the credit for the result, you know, being having that ego attached to your input. So I would love to hear what you feel some of the positive qualities are when you are creating culture change.
[00:13:02] Amy Lynn Durham
So the biggest start is creating an awareness of ego versus higher self. With leaders, it starts with that inner work. When is my ego running the show? When is my higher self running the show? And then once I recognise the difference between the two, can I practice seeking guidance from my higher self? And can I practice operating from my higher self more? And when I say higher self, my definition is: Is that just that place within you? That's peaceful operates from wisdom, compassion, love. I just think of like, like a sigh like that. You know that feeling? Juicy space. Exactly. And ego we all know, is important. Because it's there to protect us. I don't like to villainize ego. However, exploring whether it's in the driver's seat in the wrong situations. Yeah. And then ultimately, you can get to a place where your ego doesn't go away. But it's in service to your higher self, it feels safe with your higher self, always running the show or being in the driver's seat of your life. And it's okay, being in service to the higher self.
[00:14:31] Kc Rossi
And it's so much more freeing when you can loosen the grip and go more with the flow and have that trust and fluidity in your higher self actually being in the driver's seat versus ego. I'm curious because you touched on needing to do the inner work and I'm an absolute fan of that I feel that we can't spiritual bypass and feel like we're still going to get results you know, like the one of the things you I was showing up and being present. And I'm, you know, in our timing right now, where it's just like one of the biggest objections is I don't have the time. How do you overcome that objective when you're talking to leaders, and you're talking about doing that personal work and understanding the difference between ego and higher self and going through exercises to know the difference and to do the hard work and to peel back your own personal layers? How do you deal with that when they're just like, oh, my gosh, I can barely go through my inbox on my to do list now. And now I have to add this?
[00:15:36] Amy Lynn Durham
That's an interesting question, because one of the skills in SQ is breath of time perception. So she started laughing about that, you asked me that, if I'm being totally candid, I throw data at them, because that's how they can speak in the workplace is through data. So did you know that employees are 50% happier when they have close work relationships. So you need to learn how to do these connecting activities, you need to learn to operate from your higher self because it improves productivity and profitability. It's a win win. So studying your profit and loss statement all day is actually not going to improve your profits. But you have to have the courage to step forward and do this stuff. And it can be very rewarding for your bottom line in your business, because you have a highly engaged staff, you have a workplace where people are clamouring to work for you because they like the culture. And at the same time, this inner work you do as a leader can be deep and sometimes hard. So I, I've been I go through it myself, I never do anything I haven't done. And yeah, when I choose to be a calming and healing presence for the entire year of 2021. And all of a sudden, the universe keeps giving me many opportunities to practice that. Thank you universe. It gets annoying sometimes that I'm like, okay, I get it. Now I chose this, and I'm done. Like, I'm gonna try something else that's just getting. But then you have to put yourself in a space where you say thank you for the lesson. And I'll keep trying. I'll try again tomorrow when the next lesson comes. And you just two things on that. Never beat yourself up radical self forgiveness when you're working through this. And always make time for fun, and play and enjoying life on the planet. Because in this space that you and I work in, we can get really deep into all of this in our work. And we can almost get to a point where we train our nervous system that this is all there is. And to me in a negative way, we've got to get out and enjoy life as well.
[00:17:59] Kc Rossi
That's absolutely huge. And that's something that I've had to work with. And and it is hard. And I feel like, you know, it wasn't until really last year when a coach reflected back after we were chatting, and she was asking me kind of like what my routine was. And it first started with my intensive morning routine. And I just kept like listing things off, like a machine gun, and she's like, hold the phone, I hear no joy in that, like, what is going on. And we really had to peel back those layers. Because I think, you know, in my earlier times, I've been an entrepreneur for 30 years, it was very easy to fall into the traps of perfectionism. And you know, like honest work, his hard work, and the to do list and all of those things. And then I kind of like worked through that. Or in my mind, I felt I worked through that, you know, I kind of said, Oh, I'm a recovering perfectionist. But in a way I think I just overlaid that to the self help positive psychology movement, where I just changed my to do list and to all of these spiritual and awakening type of tasks and it really took somebody brave to say, hey, let's take a breath hair. And she like my homework was to strip everything back and it like it was so anxiety producing. I'm like, What do you mean? And she's like, I don't want you to do anything. I don't want you to visualise. I don't want you to do sage and I want you to do meditating. I want you to sound bowls I don't like she said, I want you to just pause and just like feel what it's like to have nothing. So I would love your thoughts on that. And if you have any personal like experiences with that.
[00:19:36] Amy Lynn Durham
Oh gosh, I have so many I don't think we have enough time but so when you talked about the person possibly listening before that's like my calendar so full. How am I even gonna do this leadership work that we're talking about? And you're talking about how your coach said, Hey, we need to remove some things off your to do list that was one of the first things that came to mind was like, Well, what can we remove? And I came from a very competitive corporate executive world before I left my job job and started create magic at work. And it's taken me, I'm still not there years of on programming from being in the machine. And a few weeks ago, I started operating from a place where I'm still it's a practice and it's, you know, I try of what can I remove from my calendar? Because you brought up to, I am so there. To do lists, perfectionist. Like always adding on my calendar, what's next is on this this. I mean, I came from a place where every 15 minutes of my time was booked. So now when I started on my own, I'm like, Oh, how am I filling this? How am I filling this space? And I just stopped, I'm like, I don't even have to I run my own company. Now. I'm removing. I'm going to operate from a place where I'm constantly trying to remove stuff from my calendar, so I can create a healthy, balanced life. And so that's where I would start with someone like that. What can you remove one small thing? I mean, it's not, it doesn't have to be drastic micro step, right? What can you remove? And what space are you going to create? To fill with something greater or better? That void that you create? What can you fill it with? positive and energetic and it might be nothing it might be? I'm just gonna sit and stare at a tree for 15 minutes and see what happens. I you know, I don't know. But yeah,
[00:21:42] Kc Rossi
Yeah, I love that. And I think there's so much value in micro changes. And they don't have to be these dramatic things. Because when we become so rigid, that's when things break. And when we add something so large and chunky, it's often hard to implement over the long haul. So I really love that you talked about micro change. And I'm very curious, because of the peace of joy and celebration. And also I feel for high achieving entrepreneurs and leaders who are very results driven. Sometimes we don't see the value in the celebrating. And I'm wondering if you notice that and why do you feel especially this is what I see, I don't know if you experienced the same, but women especially have a push back with celebrating. They're all about getting things checked off the list. But I that's one of the things across the board with my clients when they have a win even a micro win. And I say how are you celebrating it stumped them? What do you mean? I got it done. I know. But how are we celebrating?
[00:22:51] Amy Lynn Durham
I love that. Okay, so I, I have had clients that I asked the exact same question to you, especially those that are maybe in a higher position, because I think if we're in most companies do a lot of employee recognition, but it's normally for the frontline folks at times, and it's not. If you're a higher higher up, you don't really get that celebration or that pat on the back you need. Then if you haven't if you're in the entrepreneur space, oh my gosh, you have to stop and celebrate for yourself. No one else is gonna do it for you. I authored a journal prompt card deck for the workplace. And one of the cards you just reminded me is reward. And it has like a bubble bath on it. And it gives you questions, you know, what are some ways you can celebrate your success from the past few months, you know, write those down. And I was in a coaching session with a client, we were doing an SQ21 debrief. And I pulled I've all shuffled the deck and pull a card for a client. And he got that. And he was like, Oh my gosh, I've never thought of that I've never he had gone out and started his own business, and how does employees and all of these things, but he had never stopped to recognise how far he'd come and the accomplishment accomplishments he had made up to this point. It's so critical. It is.
[00:24:21] Kc Rossi
It is amazing. I'm curious, before we wrap up, what's been one of your personal pivots.
[00:24:27] Amy Lynn Durham
personal pivots. Can you elaborate on that? And what you mean by that?
[00:24:32] Kc Rossi
Well, I just feel like it's so important to show the whole journey and I feel like when our listeners hear people that just sound so amazing, like you do and it's like you have it all put together and then it's just it is so illuminating to be like No, you know, just like they say success is not the straight line. There's like these ups and downs and behind the scenes and I love to share just a snippet of behind the scenes because I feel like it really helps people self identify and understand that it's is the journey?
[00:25:01] Amy Lynn Durham
Yeah. So first of all, I definitely don't have it all together. Every day, I'm like, What am I doing? How did I even start a podcast? Or I got like, it's Yeah. And it's definitely a roller coaster ride. And if you're going to do this work, I think for me, just a personal experience, the universe has said, Okay, if you want to do this work, you have to do it for yourself. So I love it. And I mentioned before I chose 2021, to work on being a common healing presence, I have failed more times than I can even tell you on being a common healing presence this year. And it's just picking yourself back up and trying again. And sometimes you don't feel that great. But it's a much better journey than staying stuck or stagnant. Yes. And so.
[00:25:58] Kc Rossi
Yeah, absolutely. And you know, too, I want to, like lift you up for the awareness and presence, because we wouldn't even be aware of our failures if we weren't aware of the intention. So I think that that's really beautiful that you're even like aware of that. Plus, you're totally inspiring me to choose something that's such an active, beautiful way of showing up in the world versus the typical, let me pick a word for the year. So I really want to like invite our listeners for 2022 to take Amy's inspiration. And I love that calming healing presence in the world. And it just it my mind was going back to some of like the words that I've had in the past, which had been like systematise or like masculinear things, you know, which there's places for that as well. But I love this kind of like, it feels like a moving meditation when I hear calming presence in the world. So it's really inspirational to maybe choose something so active, then a word. So thank you for that.
[00:26:58] Amy Lynn Durham
Yeah. Thank you for sharing that with me.
[00:27:01] Kc Rossi
Yeah, that's awesome. How can people learn more about you and creating magic at work?
[00:27:07] Amy Lynn Durham
So my website is www.createmagicatwork.net, you can find everything you need to know about being a magic maker in the workplace there. And then also, I love to connect on LinkedIn. So I'm under a me lender, I'm on LinkedIn, find me connect with me, messaged me asked me questions, reach out to me.
[00:27:29] Kc Rossi
Yeah, I'll make sure to put the links in the show notes. So it's super easy for them to navigate to you. And if you were going to leave one last piece of bright light Wisdom, what would you like to share with the listeners?
[00:27:40] Amy Lynn Durham
I'm glad you asked me that. Because I wanted to say this with the breath of time perception, try to live or operate from the paradox that your life is both extremely profound and a tiny piece of the history of the universe and try to make decisions as a leader from that space.
[00:28:04] Kc Rossi
That's awesome. That's deep. I definitely think people should listen to that a couple of times, because for it to truly soak in and live from that place is is pretty amazing.
[00:28:15] Amy Lynn Durham
Yes. And radical self forgiveness if you don't, right. Yeah.
[00:28:19] Kc Rossi
Exactly. The other day and we can try again.
[00:28:23] Amy Lynn Durham
Yeah, exactly.
[00:28:25] Kc Rossi
Amy, thank you so much. It's been a real pleasure.
[00:28:27] Amy Lynn Durham
Yeah, thank you. I really enjoyed this. Yeah, we sent some magic to everyone.
[00:28:32] Kc Rossi
Me too. Absolutely. And until next time, my friend Bree joy.
[00:28:36] Amy Lynn Durham
Thank you.
[00:28:43] Kc Rossi
I hope you enjoyed all the wisdom that Amy shared. If you enjoyed this episode, or the women developing brilliance podcast in general, I would love to hear your thoughts. You can head on over to love the podcast.com/brilliance I want to share something from Deb who is the founder of creating and she says five stars a must listen for all brilliant women entrepreneurs. Casey Rossi is a dynamic and seasoned podcast host who has the uncanny ability to unleash the wisdom of her guests. It was a total delight to be on her podcast in order to serve her amazing audience of brilliant entrepreneurs with some business and personal tips for living a fulfilling life. Dad, I couldn't agree more. I loved our episode together as well. Thank you so much for leaving your feedback. I really appreciate it. And if you want to leave some feedback for the show, some love for the show. You can head on over to love the podcast.com/brilliance Thank you
